Julia Ross and I were virtual strangers before our paths converged in the Old City on a warm February afternoon. I immediately felt warmth and gentleness radiating from her, both of which remained all afternoon throughout our chat. She chose to take me on a scenic drive, and so at the mercy of the rolling Tennessee roads, we got a little lost. Julia, however, is anything but lost on her journey of life. As we talked, I realized she is a person of great intention and thoughtfulness, her answers to every question reflecting a timeless sort of wisdom and grace. I hope her interview changes your life the way it changed mine:
Why did you choose this particular activity for the Kindred Conversations project?
Long drives are an important part of my life. I enjoy the visual stimulation of seeing things for the first time, but I lack the funding for major travel regularly. I think the personal vehicle holds an important place in the american imaginary, too-- car ownership is a rite of passage for many. Cars symbolize freedom (and license) and space (and traffic). I am a process driven person, and I particularly enjoy the process of getting a little lost on purpose. It's a safe and comfortable way for me to let go of control a little, without sacrificing personal space or privacy. Finally, in times of great happiness, anxiety, disappointment, or stress for me personally, or when those times are shared with my friends, the opportunity to stay in motion by driving somehow makes processing emotion much easier. I love being in motion.
What is your favorite creative outlet?
Favorite is hard because I have two-- my journal and my kitchen. I find myself journaling most during times of transition. When everything is changing is when I most feel the need to write. So, I start a new journal and write in it until I feel settled again. Once I stop feeling desperate to write, I know that the transition from one place/ stage to another is mostly complete. When I start itching to write again, I buy a new journal. I've accumulated about 15 since 2008. Of course, big trips also get their own journal. Physically they have taken all sorts of forms. I used to decorate the covers of black and white composition books, then moved to leather bound ones of a while. The past few have tended to be moleskin books, but I picked up the current one at Rala- it has a lovely laser cut lattice cover that is really beautiful. The second is my kitchen. I like to turn on an audiobook or let YouTube feed me TED talks while I cook. Most cooking happens on Sunday as I prepare for the week, and this winter I've been trying to do at least one baking project on Saturdays. Cooking/ baking is meditative. You follow instructions, you let your senses guide you, you make executive decisions, you must focus on the task at hand. I realize that those directives don't necessarily seem like an opening for a creative outlet, but they require the mind to get quiet. And, as I finish whatever kitchen project I'm working on, I've found that my quieter mind is more capable of creative problem solving and identifying priorities. It helps me think more creatively than anything else.
Is there a particular TED talk that have been particular powerful for you?
There's this talk called "How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over," and I forget whose talk it is [I looked this up later: it's by Mel Robbins], but she's a very bright woman and she's just giving advice for how to get what you want out of life. Ultimately it opened my eyes to the idea that getting what you want isn't a comfortable process, it isn't an easy process. That hadn't translated into my life in me recognizing that I want to be physically fit, therefore I cannot press snooze on my alarm clock. That little part of discomfort is part of the whole process of getting what I want. And I've always been a process driven person, so when I realized that feeling uncomfortable is part of getting what I want, that was so eye opening.
You talk a lot about being a process-driven individual. Tell me more about why the process is so important for you.
My mom has this phrase: "make your list and work your list." Ultimately, it's the best way I've ever found to make life manageable. I apply that to absolutely every thing I do. Some people might think it's suffocating to always think in list form, but I find it's very empowering to say, "these are the things I want to accomplish, I need to accomplish them in this order because of time constraints or priorities, and because I have them laid out in front of me systematically, I can go do it." At the end of the day, having your homework assignment done is sort of whatever. But the fact that you loved yourself and your future enough to prioritize getting your homework done is really great, and I think that listing my works is one of the ways I give back to myself.
I'm much more a spirit of the law than a letter of the law kind of person in a lot of ways. When I focus on the finished result of a project, that's when the nasty side of my perfectionism comes out. It's easy to say, "if you had tried a little harder on this, if you had done this with more intention, then this finished product would be better." That takes a lot of the joy out of it. But if I think on the front end that I'm building this system of doing my work or baking this cake, etc, then as long as I trust my system, I don't have to critique my finished product. It makes it so much nicer for me.
If you could give one piece of advice to your younger self, what would it be?
Oh- two things actually. The first is to be your own best friend. It's so hard, and I wish I had started practicing younger. The second, is really very personal. I would advise my younger self to listen to trust other people less and take my own instincts more seriously. I assigned everyone else more authority than my own personal voice. And, I internalized all sorts of feedback, judgements, and instructions in all sorts of unproductive ways and often against my own better judgment, not realizing how much time and energy and intentional thought it would take later to unlearn some of those things.
I love that advice to younger self because it's a struggle that pertains to a lot of people. Tell me more about how you overcome the perceptions of others in order to become more self-reliant.
It was sort of nasty and hard to be honest, because I'm a people pleaser. I like saying yes; I was raised to like saying yes... I sort of came into high school wanting to accommodate other people. Often that's okay and a Christian way to live, but sometimes that means being a pushover. Sometimes that means ignoring your own needs. So I'd be in these little lightweight relationships, or even in my first serious relationship, and my desire to say yes and accommodate, the fact that I believed in myself and felt like I could do anything somehow became, "I can bend over backwards in these ten different ways to make you happy because I'm a bright person who can do anything." Part of getting out of that came from recognizing that I wasn't getting anything out of those relationships. I just learned by practice and by surrounding myself (by some dumb luck) with people who actually support me. Having them talking outside my head about how I deserve to be supported and cared about and that I don't have to bend over backwards helped my inner voice to learn that too.
Give me your definition of the word “fulfillment.” What does it mean and what does it look like in your own life?
I think fulfillment comes when I can identify what is essential. Strong relationships are essential. Quiet time is essential. I need to share my energy, work on teams, and create. When I have "be a good teammate" in mind, sending and responding to all of the emails I get is easy. When I am focusing on my capacity to create, studying is easy. So, I think finding fulfillment means finding the kind of mental framework that will enable you to go about your everyday tasks with joy.
I love that your definition of fulfillment is kind of like minimalism for real life. How do you cultivate a mindset that allows you to find meaning in the everyday things?
Part of it comes from believing in the process. There's something called slippery slope logic, which goes ten steps ahead. You can sort of use that in a productive way if you say "sharpening my pencil like this is going to help me be less distracted when I'm doing my math homework, and if I do my math homework faster I can get more sleep tonight." Recognizing that all of your behavior is connected to the little things is a really beautiful way to live. It's a way where you can realize why things matter to others. When you recognize that tiny things matter to you, then you can honor other people better.
Julia taught me that fulfillment is both a process and a mindset. Which makes perfect sense, when you really think about it, because there is no end goal when it comes to fulfillment. It’s not a box to be checked off the list of life; it is a practice, an act that harbors so much meaning without the promise of results. This so perfectly mirrors our afternoon of aimless driving. Julia and I drove without the expectation of a glorious destination. Instead, we did so to immerse ourselves in the process. And I have to say, the process alone was enough for me.
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